Tuesday, November 30, 2010

Free will versus predestination

(Funny, that this came up up right after Emily decides to start researching different faiths and viewpoints.  *Time Lord.*)

So, I was having this interesting discussion today with Abby (a girl from my honors classes.  She's super nice and really smart—in the math geek sort of way—and I like her a lot).  Recently we've started hanging out together during our breaks in the afternoon Tuesday and Thursday, between our Honors English and respective math classes.  Today we were talking about school, grades, stress (normalcy), and the discussion of stress sort of naturally drifted into the topic of prayer —>  God —> the Bible, and then we started talking about different denominations of Christianity.  This then led into the revelation that I'm neo-charismatic nondenominational, and she's Reformed—thus meaning, for the two of us at least, that I believe in free will and she believes in predestination.  This prefaced a forty-minute, somewhat intense, mutually respectful, highly engaging debate.  

I believe that Christ died for everyone, and that every individual is, during the course of their life here on earth, presented with the choice to accept that salvation, and thus enter a personal relationship with Jesus and eventually go to heaven.  Abby believes that at creation, God chose certain people to be saved and others to not be saved, and that Christ died for only those God predestined.  As she explained it to me, this means that every "chosen" individual "accepts" Christ because they're already saved, like an outward expression of gratitude.  (Am I making sense?  I think this is it in a nutshell.  I had to ask her to explain it a couple of times.)  She also said that she believes someone who is chosen has to accept Christ, no two ways about it, and someone who isn't predestined can never accept Christ.  

After a long exchange (cut short—at least for the time being, depending on whether she wants to take it up agin later—by her departure to Calculus), we established that what it basically came down to is this:  we both believe that man is created in God's image; the difference lies in that I believe the Fall distorted or corrupted that image, but that there is still a part of every human that longs for God whether they know it or not; and she believes that god's image was erased form humankind in the Fall, and thus that humans are incapable of choosing God over sin without divine intervention ("being forced into it" by predestination, as she put it).

I guess where I get hung up is that it definitely states in the Bible that God doesn't want anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9; I'm not absolutely positive of the context, but still, I think that verse states God's love pretty explicitly).  If that's true, why would He only choose some people to be saved?  If salvation is irresistible for the chosen, why wouldn't He force salvation on everyone?  Abby specifically said that she doesn't believe the Father's love extends to every human being; I don't understand this either.  If God is love, how can he create something and not love it?

Anyhow, I don't know if we'll continue this discourse later or not.  Definitely neither of us were convincing the other, which is okay.  We were friends having a conversation (even if it did get a bit...lively, haha.).  But I, at least, found it a fascinating discussion.  I've never actually talked to a live Calvinist about their beliefs before.  i've read about it, certainly, but it always sounded pretty far out.  When Abby laid it out, I could sort of see where she's coming from (it doesn't sound as good in print); I just can't agree with it.  I totally see why people take courses on theology.  Even if you can't agree with everything—and even if nobody can know all of the answers for sure this side of heaven—I still think it's one of the most thought-provoking things on the planet.

2 comments:

  1. I haven't read this yet, but I just wanted to say that I really like your new layout/color scheme :D

    ReplyDelete
  2. If I were forced, I would probably take your side of the argument, but I generally try not to pick a side in this debate. It's a very tough concept to wrap one's head around. To believe in predestination is also to say that nobody makes any of their own choices, which doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, it sure feels like I make my own choices. And if some of us are doomed and others aren't, I call it unfair. Why would people be sent to hell for an eternity simply for living the life that was already mapped out for them? That doesn't make any sense to me.

    But then again, an omnipotent God who can't save all of His own people also doesn't make sense to me.

    So, I stand in a position not in between, but maybe off to the side. There are some things that I don't think we'll ever find answers to in this life, and I think it's best to not get caught up or distracted by continuously searching out such answers.

    Predestination or not, I know who I am and I know whom I serve.

    ReplyDelete